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Rajeev Singh of Accolade on Resilience and the Expectations of Leaders

May 10, 2021

In this week’s episode, investor Matt McIlwain speaks with CEO of Accolade, Raj Singh.  Raj & Steve Singh (now a Madrona investor)  along with Mike Hilton started Concur in the early 1990s and over more than 20 years weathered economic and product challenges to build the company into the leader in corporate expense and travel.  In 2014 they sold Concur to SAP for over $8 billion.  Two years later Raj and Mike joined Accolade, a personalized medicine and health advocacy company that went public in July of 2020.  Matt and Raj talk about the need for resilience in leadership, lessons learned, how the board room is changing for good and what the big tech companies getting into healthcare means for consumers.

Matt McIlwain: [00:00:00] I’m excited to welcome Raj Singh to our podcast series today. Raj is both a great friend and an incredibly accomplished entrepreneur and innovator, having both founded and built Concur Software. And eventually, after 20 years of building that company and transforming that company a couple of times, selling it to SAP in 2014 for about $8 billion. And then, as you’re going to hear, he spent some time thinking about what was next and eventually decided to join a company called Accolade, but we’ll let him tell that story. Welcome, Raj.

Rajeev Singh: [00:00:35] Thank you, Matt. It’s great to be here. Appreciate you having me.

Matt McIlwain: [00:00:38] Let’s go back a little bit first to, to Concur. This is a company that you co-founded back in, in the mid-nineties and tell us a little bit about that journey and both the founding of it and maybe one or two of the big moments of transformation in that journey.

Rajeev Singh: [00:00:56] Sure the founding is actually a, boy it feels like a thousand years ago now. It was 1993 which is a thousand years ago for those listening. And I was lucky. I was really lucky. My brother Steve who has some tie-ins to Madrona, as I understand, and a gentleman by the name of Mike Hilton and who’s now one of my dearest friends, we’re starting a company and I was a college kid looking for a purpose. And so, they gave me a ring and said hey we’re starting a company. And I thought that’s exciting, maybe I should jump in. And then they told me it was working on expense reports and I thought maybe I shouldn’t jump in.

That doesn’t sound exciting and next thing you know it’s 21 years later and we were really lucky to have found both a category that was that was missing a leader, number one. And number two a group of individuals who founded the company to share a thought on what leadership looked like and how to build culture and mission and a business. The story of the company is, I think, the story of any company that goes through 20 years of creation and transformation which means you’re no matter what business you’re building whether it’s a dry cleaner the last for 20 years or it’s a travel and expense reporting SAS business that last for 20 years there’ll be moments during that journey where you have to fundamentally rethink the founding principles of your business. For us we lived through 1999 and crash. We made a fundamental pivot of our business from the licensed software business, which probably no one remembers anymore, to the SAAS business that was somewhat controversial when we made that choice in 2000-2001. And then we started to add on capabilities and really start to think about how we could transform the travel supply chain later in our life. And each of those were transformational moments where we had to make a choice. Were we in this for the long-term, to build a great and enduring business or were we in it to make to maximize the sort of short-term returns? And every choice we made, and this I attribute to my co-founders as much as anything I was a part of, was about the long-term value of the business and the ultimate, ultimate highest purpose of what concur could be.

Matt McIlwain: [00:03:07] Oh that’s fantastic. And, yeah, it’s notable that you and Mike and Steve were with the business all 21 years, all through the acquisition of SAP. And you mentioned this point about leadership and culture. When you face that really tough economic downturn, and even more importantly crash, and then made this decision to move from being licensed software to one of the very first software as a service companies. How did you all bring the culture and the company along in those decisions?

Rajeev Singh: [00:03:45] It’s such an important question because sometimes people think you just make a strategy choice, and you tell people okay we’re going this way, and everyone just comes along. And anyone who’s led and knows you don’t really get to tell people to do anything. You are constantly selling your vision and where you’re going. And the mission of a leader is ultimately to get everyone to understand why we’re going in this direction and a big part of that why is culture. What are we trying to build? We’re trying to build something long-term and sustainable. We’re trying to build something that we can be proud of in terms of the way we built it. And so, when we said, hey we’re making this shift to the SAAS business, a part of our story to our team was, one, the long-term sustainability of this company is tied to this new business model. It’s going to open up new markets and give us a new opportunity to serve the middle market, smaller companies around the world, and it’s going to allow us to stay together as a team and stay true to the values of the business that we built. Meaning the choice in 2000, Matt, candidly, for Concur was, were we going to sell our company or were we going to buckle down and recommit to the promise that we’ve made to our shareholders and to ourselves? And that was as much a part of transitioning to the SAAS business as the business model shift. And I think that was what we were selling our team. Do we believe what we said five years ago when we were trying to build this company or was that all talk? Because if it was all talk, we should sell it, and if it wasn’t, let’s hunker down and get this done and this is how we’re going to get it done.

Matt McIlwain: [00:05:22] I love that thought about this idea of when we had this decision asking people to recommit and double down on the vision and know that there’s hard work ahead and it if you want to be a part of that you know let’s, let’s recommit as a team. I really like that.

Rajeev Singh: [00:05:38] Not everyone does recommit but think when you have that honest conversation you find out who doesn’t want to. And that’s okay. There’s nothing wrong with those people, they made a choice and they’ve had successful careers. But those who did recommit knew what they were in for, and I would argue 10 years later could look back and say that’s one of the things I’m most proud of in my career.

Matt McIlwain: [00:06:00] Now let’s fast forward to 2015 ish and SAP has acquired Concur, and you have decided to move on from that and are thinking about things and ultimately land on this opportunity with Accolade. It was an existing business; it was on the East coast. You know what was it that inspired you and Mike, who joined you in that, to come on board at Accolade? And then I’ll probably follow up from there.

Rajeev Singh: [00:06:25] So I think you have a choice, like we all do. And we’re lucky, actually, let me start there, we’re lucky when we have choices because it means the world is smiling at us and saying here’s some choices you get to make. And for us we had some choices to make around were we going to go start another business, which was our inclination, but where were we going to start that business. And the choice that we really committed to, almost immediately upon leaving Concur, was that we wanted to make the next business we were a part of way closer to the human condition. Meaning we wanted the end of every workday to align around the idea that we helped the human being, or we helped people. And so, healthcare was a natural thought with a couple of notable exceptions. We knew nothing about healthcare, and it was, and it looked to be maybe the single hardest category on the planet to build and build sustainable long-term value. There aren’t a lot of success stories of tech entrepreneurs getting into healthcare and building successful businesses. And so, with those two-notable sort of question marks we thought we’re still going to give it a shot. Because that’s what entrepreneurs do, they say wow everybody else failed we’ll give it a spin. No doubt it will be fine. We were lucky to bump into Accolade. And the reason I say that is they were building something that we thought was extraordinarily unique and so when we found them, we abandoned our ideas around building our own from scratch. In part, Matt, I think, in part because we loved what they were doing, and in part because we were a little older. I wasn’t 23 anymore.

Matt McIlwain: [00:07:59] It’s interesting, you know, having gotten to share the Accolade journey with you and the team, is that you had this vision for, first of all, individual employees and their families deserve better access to information and ultimately healthcare, and you can find ways to align that with their employer. And Accolade already had that vision, had that passion, and yet there were opportunities to then deploy modern technologies into making that whole experience even better, was that kind of the core of the thesis for you and how have you pursued that?

Rajeev Singh: [00:08:34] A thousand percent and we were quite thrilled when Madrona decided to jump into that journey with us. And so, the core idea, which is so sensible to anyone who’s experienced the U S health healthcare system in any way shape or form, is that most people who enter the US healthcare system are confused by the by the incredible complexity, by the opacity and by the disconnectedness or the chasms between each of the components of the us healthcare system. And so, people needed help and the help they needed is often the information they needed to make a good decision. Accolade, it built that out, building a human relationship, which people laughed at, Matt. When we first started, people said that’s not a scalable model. How can you build human relationships at scale with millions of people? You know of course. What do you need technology, you need to be able to leverage data to, in turn, personalize every one of those experiences, and deliver them at scale? And we thought we could help there. Along with the idea that building that technology stack, building that data set that you know the idea of reaching HR buyers, and building a B2B commercial motion to acquire corporations as customers was something we knew how to do. And so, we thought that two plus two might equal more than four equation did work here and with a few bumps and bruises along the way so far so good.

Matt McIlwain: [00:09:51] You know you had a very successful IPO last year, originally planned for right about when COVID hit its initial very hard point, and you guys made some really good decisions around that and have done quite a bit since then. We might get back to that, but I’d love to, you know, this was your opportunity to be the CEO, too.  As I believe you were president at Concur, if I remember that correctly, and, you know, maybe a reflection on resilience as a CEO and what you’ve learned over the last six years in that regard.

Rajeev Singh: [00:10:27] I think it’s such an interesting question, Matt, because there’s been no matter where you are in a business you have these moments where you have to reassess where you are and what you’re dealing with and what you’re going through. And that’s true in life. And it’s true in business. And I think what might be unique in the CEO role around resilience is, is that the ultimate decision does rest with you. And there are big choices you make that have an impact on many, in my case now at Accolade 1900 people’s lives, and the and those decisions are compounded by the fact that you were the one who recruited those 1900 people. You were the one who said, hey, believe in this dream and go make it, go make. So, I think with each component of, or with each setback, or with each challenge, we have a choice to make about how we’re going to respond to those setbacks and challenges. You’ll recall, Matt, when we started at Accolade the first thing that happened is our biggest customer canceled. So, three months in we lost our biggest customer and we thought this is going awesome. And then we filed to go public in February of 2020, that seemed like a really good idea until the market went down by 30% in March. And with each one of those moments, you have choices. And here’s what I’ve learned in that process that there are things we have to recommit ourselves to in order to create that resilience. And I think it applies whether you’re a CEO or wherever you are and those are, in difficult times you recommit to the fundamental principles that you run your life by, that’s number one. And for me that meant family, that meant core values, that meant physical health and mental wellbeing. There is a, there’s an interesting dynamic that says when things go wrong, we get pulled away from our routines. We pulled away from the things that matter the most because we think we have to do unnatural things to change or to fix them. And what I’ve learned now, because I feel like I’m a thousand years old, but I’ve learned now is in those moments when things are going wrong, you double down on what you know, and you double down on all the things that got you here and you just go one step in front of the other. There’s an interesting story, and I know I’m rambling on too long, but it’s a, it’s a story I repeat all the time. I was at dinner one night with a group of business leaders and a gentleman by the name of Randy Hetrick. Randy’s a former Navy seal who founded a company called TRX in the fitness world. And somebody asked Randy who had been shot multiple times in combat, what’s it like to get shot? And he talked about a time in the field where he got shot. So, you want to talk about resilience. And he said, you know, he told the story, he said the first reaction you have is you’re mad, shot you and you want to go find that guy and shoot him. And the second reaction you have is, I’m bleeding in the middle of a field in Afghanistan and I need to get home. And then you focus on the five feet directly in front of you and every piece of training you’ve ever had in your life. Take the five feet in front of you and then you take the next five feet. And I’ve probably given that speech a thousand times to people who are wrestling with either different difficult moments in their personal lives or difficult moments in their professional lives. Sometimes you’ve got to break it down. Don’t look at the mountain look at the five feet in front of you and keep taking the five feet and eventually you get through. And my experience is you do get through it.

Matt McIlwain: [00:13:57] I love that story. And it does remind me of, hard to believe it is 13 months ago last March, and I remember two conversations we had then. And one was the conversation about, you know, should we go forward with this IPO in this very difficult environment, and you were being super thoughtful and grounded about that. The one that I’m going to remember more, all my life, was the one a couple of days later when you called me up and said, hey, we’ve got real needs in our community that are emerging with this COVID and you know what are we all going to do about it? And I’m here to want to try to do something about it. And so, in the midst of this, you were there trying to lead on starting something that came to be known as All in Seattle. And I just, you know, to have that kind of grounding, in that time, what was going through your head to be able to keep those two different, important issues and to lead on this issue of All in Seattle?

Rajeev Singh: [00:14:59] It’s very sweet of you to say, Matt, and I can’t tell you how much it meant when I called you, that you said I’m all in what do we do? What are we going to do? I think we do have at some level, a capacity in our lives to look at our lives and then look at the broader picture of the universe and say our particular travails and foibles aren’t really all that significant in the broader scheme of what people were wrestling with. And in many respects, Matt, the capacity to just focus and it was in, you remember, was every night. It was all night every night making phone calls, while the day-job was happening, was an opportunity for me to put in context that, yes, Accolade couldn’t go public when we thought and maybe we weren’t going to be able to go public at all, maybe who knows what was going to happen? But in the broader context of people not having work, not potentially getting kicked out of their apartments, potentially not being able to eat, being food shortages happening in the city already, that it was not the biggest problem in the world. It wasn’t even close. It wasn’t on the top 10 list. And I think that context is helpful in how you think about your business. I really do. I think, look I’m obsessed with my business, like you’re obsessed with Madrona. I think about it constantly. But it’s not the most important thing in the world and we have to keep it in context in order to make sure we’re making grounded decisions within our business and outside it. That’s the best way I can describe it, Matt. It was the best thing that could’ve happened to me, to be able to throw my heart and soul into something with my wife.

Matt McIlwain: [00:16:27] Yeah, I was going to say Jill did an amazing job too. Yes. As did many others our community, as did many others.

Rajeev Singh: [00:16:34] Exactly. You and Carol, Kabir and Noreen. There were so many people who jumped in. Heather Redmond, you know so many people who jumped in and really made a commitment to this. That was inspiration in a moment in time where the world needed inspiration. It was inspiration for me as much as it was for anyone else.

Matt McIlwain: [00:16:50] It’s great that you mentioned Kabir, cause that’s, I think that’s the place I wanted to go next. In that another way to both continue to learn and also to give back is being on boards of other companies. And you I have had the, really, the pleasure of being on the board of two companies together in Apptio, with their founder and CEO Sunny Gupta, and then Amperity with, with the founder and CEO Kabir Shahani. Curious, you know, what draws you to other talented entrepreneurs and CEOs that would say gosh that could be a real fit a good fit and it’d be something fun to work with them. What are some of the attributes of those other CEOs that you’ve had a chance to work with over time?

Rajeev Singh: [00:17:35] With those two guys for sure, off the top, integrity right off the bat. Life is too short to work with people who you don’t enjoy and who you don’t trust and know who are waking up every morning to do the right thing and to take care of their people to build a real business the right way. And Sunny and Kabir hit that off the top. The other thing you talked about resilience, Matt. You know, if there was one word you would use to describe both Kabir and Sunny, would be tenacity, relentlessness. Like those guys are never stopping, in fact, I get a ton of energy, I go to Kabir’s board meetings and I won’t lie to you I come by walk out of there not only fired up about his business but also fired up about mine, for some reason. And, and that tenacity just indicates someone who’s not going to fall down at the first setback because we know building businesses is all about setbacks. And here’s the other thing that I love about those two guys and this will sound weird, I think, as it relates to how I make my choices. They have fun. They love their work. They’re not complaining about the bad, you know the hard parts of the job, they’re relishing the fact that they get a chance to do it. And I just love that mentality. That this is supposed to be fun. Like you’re supposed to enjoy this. And I’d rather do that at whatever scale I’d rather do that with people that I like. High integrity people with this kind of character who are having fun. I’ll take that any day. It doesn’t matter to me the size of the business, it, those are the attributes that probably really appeal to my heart.

Matt McIlwain: [00:19:02] No that’s fantastic. And I just would chip in on you know that they’re both such curious and humbly curious learners and they’re really good at something I, you know, I like to call triangulation. Taking all the different data points and trying to bring those altogether. And, as you were saying earlier, you know, sometimes as the CEO, you do have to make ultimate calls on things and being able to be good triangulators, good listeners, and then make those calls and then help the team, you know, follow around those decisions, is both things that Sunny has done many years and now Kabir as Amperity’s growing. You know one of the decisions that both Kabir and you made last summer was in thinking about your boards. And you guys both had you know a lot of diversity in different respects on your boards, but you know wanted to be intentional about ethnic diversity, in particular, having a member of your board who is black who came from a BIPOC background.  And you took on this board challenge. Tell us a little bit about that from your perspective.

Rajeev Singh: [00:20:04] As the world evolves, we take on new responsibilities as business leaders, Matt, that weren’t necessarily presumed responsibilities of business leaders 25 years ago. Meaning that I think in 2021 we do, increasingly as business leaders, have a responsibility to speak on topics that matter to our employee base. Because our employee base very much is expecting us to not do more than make a profit, but to make a profit consciously, that the idea of conscious capitalism and building businesses the right way matters. And I love that by the way. I think that’s fantastic. And so, the idea of creating diversity, but ensuring that diversity isn’t just at the lower levels of the business, but it’s at the very tip top of the business at a board level and then a senior management level is something that I think every business gains from if they’re willing to make that commitment. And so, when Brad Gerstner and crew came out with the board challenge, and I know you were you were instrumental in kicking that, in getting that thing kicked off, when they came out with that board challenge, Matt, I remember talking to Brad. He said about three sentences and I said yeah, I’m told this makes so much sense. And it was a great impetus for us to commit to the principles that we already believed in. And we were lucky enough to bring on a woman by the name of Cindy Kent, who’s the president of Brookdale, senior living.

And she’s been spectacular. And she comes from a different background than many of our other board members, and yet brings the healthcare expertise coupled with that different background that has already really shed extraordinary light on our boardroom. And so, I think there are moments like these that are going to continue to face business leaders in our, in the United States over the course of the next three to four years.

And I just encourage them to wade in and make these conscious choices and make sure that they’re consistent with your belief system. And I think your employees are going to embrace that belief.

Matt McIlwain: [00:22:05] No that’s, that’s really well said. And I do think that there is a kind of this embedded word of kind of intentionality, too, that, you know, you had your core values, you were living them out in many respects, but in some areas, there was an opportunity to be more specific and more intentional and you followed through on that, which is just fantastic.

Rajeev Singh: [00:22:24] Don’t you think, Matt, a part of this is, if we have the platform and we can give other people the example of, hey, you can do this in your business and the outcome is going to be positive. That it’s one thing to do it’s another thing to commit to something like the board challenge publicly. And in some ways, give others who might not have the same situation we do the cover to go commit the same way. And that’s that is that point of intentionality. It’s not just doing it’s saying I’m going to; I’m going to say out loud that I’m going to do it. And in, so doing, give other people some room to follow suit.

Matt McIlwain: [00:23:05] I just, I definitely think there are our roles in situations for that help. And this was certainly one of them and it just it meant a lot to me and to Madrona, as well, that you and your team decided to accept that challenge.

Rajeev Singh: [00:23:18] And here’s the best news of the whole thing. Not only did you do all that, but your business also got better and there’s a way to build a business that continues to improve, and it continues to improve the society around it at the same time. That’s possible.

In fact, like, you know, I worry sometimes that there are indictments of capitalism out there, and yet I’m such a huge believer in the system and a believer in the idea that capitalism done well for our communities for our society is the future.

And I think it’s what this, you know, you’ve got a 25-year-old. It’s what this next generation of people coming out of school wants. They want to know that they can go build something, go build their lives, go build their careers, but do it in a way that makes the world better. And I just, I love the push that we’re getting from that generation.

Matt McIlwain: [00:24:05] I think that’s a said. And it brings us back to why you and Mike decided to help lead Accolade. And that, you know, you were caring about how do we make people’s lives better in a very tangible way. And make a difference through business, through capitalism, as you say, tell us a little bit more about how the technologies you’ve been deploying over the last five six years, whether that’s, you know, the mobile interfaces or the early applications of machine learning are actually leading to, better patient experiences, better alignment with the health service providers that you all employ and ultimately better outcomes.

Rajeev Singh: [00:24:47] I think if there’s one word that I probably wouldn’t have described it this way, six years ago, Matt, of as I really started studying healthcare, but that I think is the, or the most important word, in how healthcare will evolve over the course of the next 10 years, it’s personalization. That we have a system today that kind of churns people out transactionally, deals with their condition or deals with their particular transactional need in that moment, and yet we have enormous amount of data that’s available to us about all of their contextual needs. And so, you know the unfortunate reality in our country is you know, some number like 30, I think at the numbers, 35% of the people who are wrestling with one chronic condition are actually wrestling with two or three, two or three.

And so, managing their diabetes isn’t necessarily good enough, if you don’t know that they’re also wrestling with hypertension and depression. And so, the capacity to collect the data set required, which is something we’ve worked enormously hard on at Accolade, and then the leverage that data set using AI so that we can make recommendations.

But today we have frontline care teams or claims and benefits specialists, nurses, and pharmacists, and we just added primary care positions to our service delivery engine, to be able to use that data to put and use AI to put recommendations in front of our care delivery teams, that say, this is exactly what Matt McIlwain needs in this moment, or at least this is a really good recommendation for you to take up, that you don’t have to search through all of his medical records to figure out. We’re going to use computers in the way that they’re supposed to be used to give you the data you need to get you to the right outcome faster and in a highly personalized way. And I think that same concept exists in all the gene coding work you’re seeing. The same concept exists in all the blood work that we’re seeing. Like there’s so much work happening that says I can know more about this individual and stop treating their condition. They came in and told me their shoulder hurt, and I treat that shoulder. I know so much more about that person. How can I help really get that to the exact right spot?

Matt McIlwain: [00:27:02] Yeah, no, that’s really well said. And in a lot of respects, you all are trying to create a personalized experience for sort of the whole person, you know, for the macro biology, if you want to say it. And of course, it’s not just the biological makeup it’s environmental, there’s so much more. And yet, as you hint at there, you know, one of the things we’re excited about is the microbiology and the micro and in the core chemistry level, what we can are only beginning to understand and see around single cell sequencing and the leveraging of DNA. Seems it’s that personalization theme is going to play out over the next set of decades.

I mean, we really truly are only in the beginning days here.

Rajeev Singh: [00:27:44] And this is the macro hypothesis that ultimately you have to take all that information and to get human beings to act on it. You must have a relationship with that human being that engenders trust. Because once we know all these things, can we leverage the human relationship or the relationship that we’ve built with them in order to get them to act on their health and their needs?

And this is one of the most confounding parts of health care in any country, not just the United States, which is oftentimes people understand what’s best for them, but don’t act in that manner. Because of the complexity of getting to that outcome. But if our hypothesis is let’s gather all that information, let’s understand where they need to go and then let’s hold their hand and get them there.

And today it’s with one set of data, but tomorrow to your point, I think the data is going to be dramatically larger.

Matt McIlwain: [00:28:40] And that kind of leads me to one last topic, I think that our audience would be interested in your perspective on which is, this set of opportunities in healthcare have not gone unnoticed by the big tech companies. And it’d be interesting to hear, you know, especially with, Microsoft in light of their recent $20 billion, you know, announced acquisition of Nuance, or Amazon with things like Amazon Care and PillPack, or Google with Verily. Just a little bit your perspective on how those different players is approaching the healthcare market and, you know, how they might compliment some of the things that you all are doing.

Rajeev Singh: [00:29:19] Yeah. I get this question often. There’s a, there’s a question as you know, which of these guys are competitors or future competitors and which of these guys are partners? Here’s the way I think about it. First of all, it certainly has not, it’s not gone unnoticed even in the past, Matt.

I mean, it’s 20% of GDP in the United States and is 10% of GDP around the world. And so, if you’re going to be a company at scale like Amazon, Microsoft, and Google, you have to play in healthcare and it’s, it is a vertical that you have to pay attention to specifically. Meaning you can’t build generic solutions for the vertical.

I think Amazon is approaching the space in much the same, brilliant way that they approach everything that they do cost, utility, and availability. And so, and with an obsession around the customer experience around the individual transaction. And so, to me, Amazon Care, PillPack and the wide variety of things that they may do are going to be a focused-on cost availability and transactional customer experience. We think that’s really smart. And to the degree you can reinvent individual components of the experience, those will be valuable components of the experience for individuals. We do think we believe differently that healthcare is longitudinal and that the individual transaction is important.

But unfortunately, unless you understand the breadth of that individual’s needs, you’ll struggle to really have an impact on trend line. You can improve the consumer experience and you can lower the cost of the transaction, but healthcare is a long-term journey, and the long-term cost of that individual won’t necessarily alter, unless you really understand that context.

I think Microsoft and Google are playing more of a data game. And enabling this personalization capacity via data. Now, I think Google’s playing in a number of investments as well, but fundamentally I think that both companies are taking a platform story that will enable companies like Accolade, or others, to leverage a broader data set at scale and less expensively, to go deliver their personalized service.

And I think that’s a super smart strategy that will yield value on a broad basis, particularly for the larger players in the space who aren’t necessarily technically adept enough at getting that data themselves.

Matt McIlwain: [00:31:36] That’s a great framing. And I agree with you that, you know, both on the kind of the operational initiatives, as well as on the investment side, I would imagine that all three of those companies will continue to increase their presence in healthcare more broadly.

Well, Raj it’s just been a delight to spend some time with you here and it to hear a little bit about your journey and your perspectives on a variety of topics. Really want to thank you for spending some time with me today and look forward to seeing you both in the boardroom, hopefully in person soon, as well as at the Seahawks games in person when the fall turns come around.

Rajeev Singh: [00:32:17] Oh man. Can you imagine? I can’t wait. Matt, thank you so much for having me. It’s always a pleasure. We could do this without the recordings and the video, anytime.

Matt McIlwain: [00:32:27] Okay. Thanks Raj. Appreciate it.


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